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Is my K worth saving?

 
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Monkey Boy



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:55 pm    

Is my K worth saving?
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I have a K-7 that I received march of 2005. My tiles starting coming loose in 2008, and I have the problem others have described where most of the tiles feel mushy, held together only by grout. I have had only about 10 tiles actually fall off.

If I only replace the tiles that fall off, I will have to continually be replacing tiles. If I try to do the whole thing, it is beyond my ability and time that I want to put into it.

I have looked at replacing it with a Komodo, though I much prefer the look of the Kamado to the Komodo. I also only do short cooks, and rarely do long cooks, so at the price point for the Komodo is not worth it for me.

Now that Kamado has new ownership, I am hopeful that I can get other parts such as lumpsavers that need more frequent replacement.

Is the best option just to keep reattaching tiles as they fall off? Is there a preferred method for this (I have Richards PDF for tile repair if that is the best method).

Thanks for any help!

John
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Kamado Grills



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:23 pm    

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Hey John,
It's chris at Kamado, when we spoke the other day I didn't know your tile work was so extensive but if you send me some pics I'm sure we can figure something out. Also I didn't receive your invoice.

Thanks
Kamado
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rockdawg



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:27 pm    

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Reset tiles as needed. IT's not hard and it does not take much time. It takes longer to scrape the bits of thinset and grout off the tiles than it does to regule them. Like you, I have an early mexi-K (very early, as in the first truckload after they escaped to Mexico). IT has served me well except like you lots of the tiles have floated over the years.

WHat I do is when one falls off, is pull on the ones around the opening and keep removing the ones that come easily. I stop when there is firm resistance to removing them and that's the project for the time. The first time I did it I thought I would end up pulling off all of the tiles, and indeed had to replace 50 or 60 of them, but after that it seemed that once I had a few hard points where the thinset was well attached to both the outer wall of the K and the tile there was some rigidity with the rest of the tiles so relatively few fell out after those first couple of adventures (on on the top and one on the bottom).

Repair time for the first job including prework and cleanup? about an hour and a half. No special tools needed other than my concrete patio floor to scrape the flash off the tiles and disposable rubber gloves to keep the thinset off my hands. Oh, and a spray bottle full of water and a shop towel to moisten the finished work and clean the excess off... if you don't get it before it dries you have to start scraping and THAT can take a while.
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Kamado Grills



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:50 pm    

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rockdawg wrote:
Reset tiles as needed. IT's not hard and it does not take much time. It takes longer to scrape the bits of thinset and grout off the tiles than it does to regule them. Like you, I have an early mexi-K (very early, as in the first truckload after they escaped to Mexico). IT has served me well except like you lots of the tiles have floated over the years.

WHat I do is when one falls off, is pull on the ones around the opening and keep removing the ones that come easily. I stop when there is firm resistance to removing them and that's the project for the time. The first time I did it I thought I would end up pulling off all of the tiles, and indeed had to replace 50 or 60 of them, but after that it seemed that once I had a few hard points where the thinset was well attached to both the outer wall of the K and the tile there was some rigidity with the rest of the tiles so relatively few fell out after those first couple of adventures (on on the top and one on the bottom).

Repair time for the first job including prework and cleanup? about an hour and a half. No special tools needed other than my concrete patio floor to scrape the flash off the tiles and disposable rubber gloves to keep the thinset off my hands. Oh, and a spray bottle full of water and a shop towel to moisten the finished work and clean the excess off... if you don't get it before it dries you have to start scraping and THAT can take a while.


Awesome advice! Thanks! If you havent done it before, it really isnt that bad at all. Like Rockdawg says, the clean up behind the tiles is the most time consuming, but your whole project shouldnt take more than an afternoon to accomplish.

John
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Unbelievable
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:08 am    

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As I recall there was also a school where you could take a class on retiling a kamado.
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tcoliver



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:36 pm    

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Yeah, I think those graduates put together a company that is now making more money than Kamado.
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Monkey Boy



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:47 pm    

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Thanks Rockdawg for your advice, I will try it. What products and method did you use? Did you follow Richards PDF posted on the forum, or something else?

After I fix the tiles and seal it, do I still need a cover for the K?

Thanks!
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rockdawg



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:24 am    

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Monkey Boy wrote:
Thanks Rockdawg for your advice, I will try it. What products and method did you use? Did you follow Richards PDF posted on the forum, or something else?

After I fix the tiles and seal it, do I still need a cover for the K?

Thanks!


That PDF is a little overblown, but basically correct. I use premixed thinset and get a small tub for about $5 from the tile section of your local big box hardware store you can see it called premixed Thinset Mortar (or thinset mortar and grout or premixed tile thinset or even acrylic tile adhesive). It comes in a little tub or bucket and once you open it it looks like white clay (there are some colored ones out there, but for this example we'll stick with the basic). I also have a box of sanded grout to match the color of the grout already on the K. I'll get to that later.

I prep the repair area by lightly wiping with a small wire brush to get the loose bits off. Then I get my spray bottle and moisten the repair area. Then I take my cleaned off tiles and scoop a fingertip into the thinset and 'butter' the back of a tile and then place it. By butter I mean I use more than it needs, I want the extra to slide in under any hollows in the surrounding area. After that it's just a matter or repeating keeping a little space between each tile. Don't worry about the excess right away, just get the tiles placed the way they were when they came off... Remember the exact number of tiles that came off should be all you need to do the patch job. If you find you are running short of tiles and haven't lost any, I'll get you are jamming the tiles too close together. Keep an eyeball on the tiles that are still attached to inform you.

Once all the tiles are in, and you give it 20 mins to a half hour to set, get your spray bottle and your shop rag and spray the repaired area and gently wipe the excess. If you have lots of it, you may want to drag a putty knife (without too much force, just a light scrape) to get this part started and get the excess to a manageable level. Just spray and gently wipe until the tiles are clean and the thinset is slightly below the level of the tiles (again, use areas of your K that did not need the repair as a guide).

Allow the thinset to fully cure overnight. I cheat, but that's how you are supposed to do it.

Next take you box of grout and mic a handfull with a small amount of water and stir it into a paste. YOu will take this paste and with a gloved hand spread it over the repaired area. Doesn't need to be thick, the grout is just a stain to color the repairs. It should try in a few minutes. AFter that get a shop towel and buff the stuff off your tiles. It'll stay in the little valley between tiles and color your thinset.

I have used Redi-White premixed thinset and that worked fine, I had a big bucket of it and used about a quarter of it over the years before it hardened in the garage and I tossed it out. I went to Home Depot and got a little bucket of AcrylPro 1 qt. Ceramic Tile Adhesive. That seems to work fine. I also have a box of grout that I've had for years. IT's called Polyblend Sanded Grout #60 (charcoal grey). It looks black, but it goes over the thinset so lightly, that it is an exact match to the grey grouting that most K's came with. If you don't have the standard grey grout, just get whatever is closest but slightly darker than the original.

As for sealers? I dunno. I live in an area that will get rain for months, but only a couple days where the temp drops below freezing... and then usually only for a couple of hours in the morning. I do seal in the fall just to keep the repair work down, but unless you get snow, I'm not convinced that it's 100% necessary. It does seem to keep the tiles on and my repairs have been smaller and further between since I did start sealing... and it only takes a few minutes to apply each year.
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Monkey Boy



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:12 pm    

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Thanks Rockdawg!

With the thinset mortar- I read bad reviews on the home depot site for the premix stuff. Is there a product that is best for the thermal expansion/contraction of a kamado? I also read bad reviews on the powder mortar. I'm a total newbie at tile work, and want to make sure I use the best products so I don't have to redo it in a few years.

I live in santa fe, NM where it goes below freezing in the winter and snows. Do I only need to cover the K in the winter (below freezing)?
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rockdawg



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:51 pm    

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Disregard the reviews. I've been maintaining my K off and on for the last 6 and a half years. We aren't talking about floor tiles or pool tiles. The slow curing of the acrylic premixes means that you have plenty of time to get your repair done... and then you can light a fire and speed up hardening time.

And... as for the grout... I'm not sure I understand. Grout is grout. Besides, we don't really use it as grout, on a K it's more like a stain.

If you get freezes and it snows, I'd sure cover my grill if I were you. Water getting into the cement walls and freezing is the enemy. I'd seal and cover.

Like I said, in the Northern California valley, I have different issue. I'm thinking of covering just to keep things dry as I cook at least a couple times a week in winter. But I aven't bothered so far.

Anyway, that's my advice drawn on years of maintenance. Take it for what it's worth. Exept for the flowerpot base that is now my top damper, you could not tell it's age or that about a quarter of the tiles have fallen off over the years (in 10-20 tile dribs and drabs).
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Kamado Grills



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:56 pm    

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rockdawg wrote:
Disregard the reviews. I've been maintaining my K off and on for the last 6 and a half years. We aren't talking about floor tiles or pool tiles. The slow curing of the acrylic premixes means that you have plenty of time to get your repair done... and then you can light a fire and speed up hardening time.

And... as for the grout... I'm not sure I understand. Grout is grout. Besides, we don't really use it as grout, on a K it's more like a stain.

If you get freezes and it snows, I'd sure cover my grill if I were you. Water getting into the cement walls and freezing is the enemy. I'd seal and cover.

Like I said, in the Northern California valley, I have different issue. I'm thinking of covering just to keep things dry as I cook at least a couple times a week in winter. But I aven't bothered so far.

Anyway, that's my advice drawn on years of maintenance. Take it for what it's worth. Exept for the flowerpot base that is now my top damper, you could not tell it's age or that about a quarter of the tiles have fallen off over the years (in 10-20 tile dribs and drabs).


again, very good advice!

Thanks,
John
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