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So did I just get lucky with my K?
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jack62
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:31 am    

So did I just get lucky with my K?
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Hello all,
I got my K7 back in the early 2000's. Perhaps 03',04' maybe. Before I go any further I'd like to say that I found this site by accident last year. I read through most of the posts and I want to make this very clear right off the bat: I'm on YOUR side. There is just too much information here to dismiss. Factual information.

Before I ordered my Kamado the thing I was most worried about was customer service 'in case' something went wrong with my order. You must rememeber, this was 03', 04' timeframe. There is a post (sticky) in THIS forum about "will the real pattent holder stand up" and I believe it has some pictures of the 'old' kamados that were sold in the 70's. Supposedly they were cracking because people thought they were getting too hot and used water to try to cool them off....thus Richard began his search for a better fire clay. Then the modern day K's were born. That's the story as I know it.

Now my step father used this old kamado (70's version) for ....well, it's still in use today. Whether or not it was one of Richards is up for debate, and frankly, I don't care if it is legit or not. All I know is it still functions quite well. So THAT is why I decided to get my own Kamado back in the early 2000's. I found the kamado forum and fell for it all......hook, line, and sinker.

I figured it was a calculated risk. *IF* I got everything I ordered, and *IF* everything was in great shape when I recieved it, I figured I'd never have to deal with kamado customer service....based on how long my step fathers grill has held up. I figured I'd never need another grill in my lifetime. After all, I'm 38 now and my step dad has had his 'old' #5 for at least 30 of those years. The new ones were supposed to be twice as thick, more durable, more better, yada yada yada........so I took the plunge.

I am happy to report that my experience was nothing short of perfect. Literally perfect. I got every piece I ordered. On time, etc..on down the list.

I forget why but sometime last year I found this site and I was a little bit shell shocked. So I emailed ALL of my friends that I have ever cooked for and told them the truth. DO NOT BUY ONE FROM RICHARD. Even though my transaction was perfect, and even though my grill still functions perfectly to this very day, there is just too much factual evidence to suggest that most likely, as of sometime in the very recent past, if you do business with RJ, you're most likely going to get ripped off.

But I come here today asking you guys this question: Did I just get lucky?
I don't have any tiles loose or cracking and I've had not one issue with my Kamado #7 in almost 10 yrs now. You guys seem to be the experts. Was he doing legit business then? (when I got mine) Was he using a different manufacturing process? I guess it's sort of like survivors guilt...ya' know? Why am I the only one with no problems?

Second question: Let's say you were me. You had my K7. What would YOU do right now to make sure it stays in good working order? Re-seal the tiles? Water proof the tiles? Any other maintenance you can think of?

Also, I have to admit one other thing. When he first introduced his Kamado charcoal, my step father and I ordered a pallet. I think it was the extruded coconut coal. The funny shaped, pressed, 'no smoke' coal. We recieved that as well and I have to tell you, to this day it was the best charcoal I've ever used. I could use half a box and do a 12 hr low and slow with no problem and almost always there was a lot of coal left over. I don't know how I got so lucky. I miss that charcoal but I won't ever order it again. I know better now.

It's obvious to me now that I got mixed up with the wrong company, but I'm just wondering if I really did get that lucky, or was he just doing 'better' business then or what? What the heck happened to RJ and Kamado?

Last thing (promise) Just to be clear once again for anyone on the fence about buying from RJ and Kamado dot com...DO NOT DO IT! I either got lucky or got something they clearly aren't making anymore. This forum is here for a reason. READ IT! Thanks all and look forward to reading your responses about my grill.
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jack62
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:52 pm    

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17 views and no reply? C'mon now. What'cha thinking?
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Gerard



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 769

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:33 pm    

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Be patient, Jack. We're not nearly as busy here as we once were. The Kamado Company is done for... only the website remains.

But for you, and only you, I'll kick this dead horse just to see if I still have my old form:

Yes, you got lucky. Or maybe the rest of us here are just unlucky. There's no doubt that there are dozens - maybe even hundreds - of owners whose experience parallels your own.

Glad you recognize the preponderance of evidence that's gathered here that not all K buyers have been so fortunate. The K forum used to have a handful of diehard wingnuts that simply couldn't grasp the notion that since they hadn't been personally shafted, any reports of shoddy work and service were false and malicious.

There's a special place in BBQ Hell for them. They provided the old sleeze ball a couple of years of cover to keep right on screwing people. Pretty shameful that only a few of them have ever publicly renounced their words and apologized for their role in helping the Johnsons rip people off.

We don't have much inside information so we can't authoritatively speak of changes in manufacturing processes and quality control. But from our membership's accounts, the K company has produced many bad K's throughout the 9 or 10 years they actually had a "factory." Don't think they've had any real production in the past 2 or so years. Maybe they've pieced a few together in their garage from old components they had laying around - but that's about it.

As a business model - the Kompany made the mistake of trying to compete price-wise with the true ceramic grills - very capable units that were comparatively mass produced and much more easily shipped. It's easy to speculate that as the years went by, more and more shortcuts were taken and perhaps their quality deteriorated even further.

Bah - Not nearly as bitter and sarcastic as I used to be.
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jack62
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:46 pm    

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Thank you Gerard. You did touch a nerve with me though. I too would like to offer up my own apology for my part. I didn't have too many posts over 'there' on 'that' forum......but I do feel slightly guilty because you could put me in the class of 'fanboy' I suppose but only because of my experience with my step fathers grill. I grew up thinking one day I would have one. Well that day came and I searched online for kamado and well....I guess the rest is history. I read the forum (not this one the 'other' one) and I came to believe that RichardJ was indeed the original producer of what my step father had.

Even then, I was not oblivious to the fact that there were customer complaints. However, I also believed *I* had many many more years of experience cooking on these things than your average person. Let's face it, even today not too many people have these types of grills and I imagine it was even way less back when I was growing up. So I knew I was taking a risk per se at the time but I was convinced if I got what I ordered and it was in good condition, I'd never have to deal with customer service. Ever. I was that confident in the product. I even had two people in my area come by to look at mine before they bought and I told them pretty much what I have said here.

Now, I just want to know what I can do to keep mine in the condition it's in. It's darn close to mint condition and I love cooking on it.

As a side note for any future persons reading this if I ever do have to purchase another grill, I would go with the Big Green Egg. My step father also one of those. A large. (not the XL) To tell you the truth, I would like to have both.

They are two different animals in my opinion. The K7 is just a low and slow beast. Even I was surprised at how easy it is to operate for such long periods of time with no real supervising. A 8-10+ cook at 225-250 is a thing of beauty. No need to ever open the lid really. In my experience, you CANNOT do that on BGE (large). I don't know why really. With the large BGE you have to baby sit it alot on low and slows for some reason I have yet to figure out.

A buddy of mine just bought the XL BGE and he loves it, but I KNOW he doesn't have anywhere near the experience I do with low and slows so asking him how it does would be like asking a first grader how the space shuttle handles. I would need to do it myself with his cooker to find out on my own. From what I have seen of his (I helped him deliver it to his home)...I LOVE the grill space, but I DO NOT LIKE how BIG the 'coal' area is. It's huge. When I saw it, I immediately thought of ways to help my buddy save some charcoal when just doing routine cooking. Burgers, etc...

Put it this way. If I had a K7 and a BGE (Large) I'd grill with the BGE and smoke low and slow with the K7. I believe the BGE grills more efficiently and is somewhat easier to use (lid weight) while the low and slow performace of *MY* K7 can't be beat. Matched perhaps...(KK) but not beat.

I'm not a BGE fanboy or spokesman either, but I do believe we can all agree that at least BGE is legit. The company. The cooker itself. Customer service. Etc.. And not to mention their charcoal is pretty good too I must say.

But yeah, I got lucky I guess. It really sucks too about RichardJ because the ONE thing I wanted - the meat hanger/s - I didn't order. Now I wish I had but can't because he's an obvious crook. Bummer.
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dwebb



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:49 am    

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You need to learn more about true ceramic cookers. I have a large and small BGE and cook over 20 hours at 250 on the large with never a lift of the dome. Holds the temp perfectly for 6 years now. This is true of other ceramic cookers also. You just have to set the vents correctly and just sit back and not worry ever. Pretty easy.
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jack62
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:59 am    

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Thanks dwebb. I would very much like you clarify your sizes of BGE. When you say large, do you mean large or the XL they now make? Also, the top vent you use....

Do you use the 'standard' top vent it comes with, or do you use the slide top or the wheel top? And the bottom vent...do you go wide open and control the temp using the top or a combo of both?

Also, do you build your fire any particular way? For instance, on my K7 I have found it best to get a nice (SMALL) very hot fire going and then really pour quite a bit of coal on top and then use a mapp gas torch to light just the middle top. I closer her up and wait about 30 min to 225-250 then throw on the meat.

I'm just curious about your technique because YOU ARE CORRECT.....I do not have a lot of experience with low and slows on (what I call) the #5 BGE or large. None on the XL. Thanks for your time dwebb. Interested to learn.
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dwebb



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:09 pm    

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Yes, a large not an XL. The daisy wheel on top and the vent, use both to control the temp. You realize +/-25 degrees is no issue for any cooker. Trick is not to chase your temps otherwise you will never get it right. The BGE is a 'set it and forget it' cooker. As for a good fire, have the cooker cleaned of ash, holes cleaned and free. I just dump the coal in and light with an electric starter. Heck, my small I can keep a fire going at 250 for 16 hours too. Try going to BGE forum and learn a lot. They don't care if you don't have a BGE, but the tricks should work for you too.
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tcoliver



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:07 am    

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Jack62, just want to reiterate what Gerard said, yes you got lucky, I'm sure there are hundreds of RJ's POS cookers that are still in good shape and functional. Remember there are a lot of people who don't even know what a forum is, much less frequent one, so we don't hear all the stories. Most people will vent only when they have a problem. There was a point in time that they were producing a pretty good product however their process was always flawed. No matter what you do with ceramics there is a possibility of cracking. Look over at Komodo Kamado and you will see what it takes to almost completely eliminate these possibilities. Of course that comes at a price, but that is truly what is needed. So if you just get lucky and the cooker doesn't crack badly and the tiles were actually adhered with some expertise it is possible for an RJ cooker to last a long time. I don't think RJ in the beginning was out to make a bad cooker however once he tried to compete with the "mass produced" cookers he found he had to start cutting corners and thats when things went from bad to worse. Not to mention he was a terrible business person. The way I see it RJ had a choice, the way he went to go cheaper to compete with the less expensive grills or to go the route of Dennis L, and turn the ceramic tiled ceramic grill into the best grill around and only cater to the people who can afford to have the best. Luckily RJ is just about gone now and all ceramic grills on the market are legit.
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Porkchop



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Champaign, IL (Univ of IL U/C)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:46 am    

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jack62, i guess "lucky" is in the eye of the beholder. tile issues, which i've never had since i got a textured (around the same time you got yours) seem to go hand in hand with the weather. good luck keeping it in good working order; i don't thing you'll get any help from the manufacturer.

BGE's will CERTAINLY go low and slow for overnight cooks without tending. learning how to set up your fire is key. check out their forum, and search for "elder ward"; i've used his method and it's great for overnights.
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Admin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:06 am    

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I would consider sealing the tiles. I had to re-tile mine a couple of times, as different areas sloughed off. But since I re-tiled and sealed the unit, it's been chugging away fine for years. Just pulled off some perfect tender tri-tips this weekend as a matter of fact.

Yes, I do think sealing is a very good idea for the sake of longevity.

My K is over 10 years old now, but it has required more than a bit of work on my part.

Wink
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jack62
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:37 pm    

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Thanks for the tips guys. Elder Ward.......gotcha.....

Admin, may I ask how you would go about this project? Mind you, none of my tiles are loose. Nothing flaking off. My biggest probelm right now is I know I have neglected the top damper. I know if i try to screw it all the way off the 'crud' will lock it up as it nears the top. I ran into this trouble before and all I did was MAPP gas the threads on the inside, take a wire brush to it and scrape away all the mess. Repeated a few times, let it cool, and then sprayed some food grade oil on the threads and she came off very easy.

But I honestly think I'm at the re-water proofing the tiles stage at this point and I just don't even know where to start. I don't want moisture getting in between the grout and the tiles. So help me out. Please?
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Admin
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:30 am    

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It's been a few years since sealed mine. All I did was go to Home Depot and look for a concrete/masonry sealer. It was in the same area as the tile grout and adhesives. I picked one that that had a "wet look", just to give it a gloss finish. Then I brushed it on with a paint brush. Not much to it, really...



In the picture the kamado is dry, but the patio is wet. This was after a re-tile, grout, and spin-top replacement (replaced with a KK cap after my spider rusted shut and I broke the neck trying to free it). So that was December 2006... it still looks decent, but I've been thinking lately it's time to do it again.
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Unbelievable
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:18 pm    

Those portland feet!
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I remember the first time I set my kamado on those I fiddled with it all day trying to make them work. They are krooked on the bottom due to the rocks in the cement mix. That's when I decided to make a stand for mine.

Memories. Rolling Eyes

By the way Admin, it looks like you did a great job on the repairs. It just needs some kind of side table. Smile
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d16
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:43 pm    

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I can't remember exactly when I got my K7, but it was probably around 2002/2003. I did have couple of issues at the time of delivery: wrong tile color and one of the wheels had bent slightly. At the time the company offered to take the K7 back and ship me another one but I decided to keep it instead. I researched extensively before I bought the K, and I don't recall seeing much complaints at the time.

Like the OP, I never had other problems in all the years except minor air leaks. I decided to search for a fix in the last few days and then I stumbled on this forum. I consider myself very lucky as well. Now I have to warn my friends as they love the looks and the food when they came over.

I think there could be a few reasons I still have a perfectly functional K.
1. I applied a tile sealer when I first received it (I should seal it again after all the reports of tiles came off).
2. I seldom cook past 400F.
3. Lastly my unit was probably built in the US, since I recalled seeing a newsletter saying the K will be built in Mexico, and then later another newsletter saying the manufacturing had moved back to the US because of quality issues.

Maybe the company never recovered from dealing with the quality issues.

regards,
/David.
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fishtail-99



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1437

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:25 am    

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d16,
Richard Johnson has tried to manufacture in several locations and the story is always the same. He tells everyone how wonderful the work ethic and skills are in the new location. Then he gets into trouble with the law/creditors in that location and he flees, claiming the workers are lazy and crooked and incompetent. It seems with each move the quality gets worse and worse and RJ cuts more corners.
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